Curse

Elfblade · Jul 16, 2011, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

If you think that 10e is too much for 15 seconds of +8 health regen, you certainly do misunderstand it.

I think you dont understand why healing breeze is bad on heroes . it doesnt synergize with heroes because they will still use a heal spell after it even if Healing breeze would be sufficient as the target is still on lower hp (in conclusion wasting 10e on healing breeze what they could have done with mb&s or any other heal in 1 or 2 seconds).

In PVE Degen from hexes or conditions is only a problem if your whole team is suffering from it (ie stacking hexes or many conditions) but if this situation occurs Healing breeze or recup is not the way to combat it or effective way.

In PVE the most effective way of defence is passive defense, cheap heals(healing breeze isnt cheap and instant!) and some aoe heals.

@UA, as outerworld said ua is great for not letting situations escalate further after you make a mistake or a sudden spike kills a party member as it resses instantly and with at least 50% energy and full health. UA shouldnt be needed but it isnt a bad optional considering you or your heroes make mistakes.

Lanier · Jul 16, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfblade

@UA, as outerworld said ua is great for not letting situations escalate further after you make a mistake or a sudden spike kills a party member as it resses instantly and with at least 50% energy and full health. UA shouldnt be needed but it isnt a bad optional considering you or your heroes make mistakes.

Heroes dont make "mistakes" often enough to warrent bringing anything more than two non-elite rezzes. If they are, then the team build needs way more help.

Elfblade · Jul 16, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

granted but people do, 2 resses is the limit but ua isnt a bad monk skill considering it gives 50% extra healing on all spells also on all spells. I do not bring ua myself but it isnt a bad skill as it prevents wipes when you need an instant ress.

Edit: xenomortis stated it much better

Xenomortis · Jul 16, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Heroes dont make "mistakes" often enough to warrent bringing anything more than two non-elite rezzes. If they are, then the team build needs way more help.

Heroes make 'mistakes' all the time. The trick is not letting them matter.

Generally however, UA is overkill. There are times when it is somewhat desirable; when you're constantly being swarmed by incoming mobs then a quick res is very helpful (think Battle for Lion's Arch, Tracking the Corruption and Cleansing Haiju Lagoon).
When you're simply moving from group to group to outright kill them then a regular res will do; if you're not getting damage through to the enemy and you start dying you have problems beyond resses.

Lanier · Jul 16, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Heroes make 'mistakes' all the time. The trick is not letting them matter.

Maybe mistakes wasn't the correct term. Still, the point stands that UA usually isn't worth using (which I think we are in agreement about).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

@Lanier - BS! If you were to actually monitor what your heroes are doing, you'd see that they don't just randomly rez people. Actually, they do a very good job of only rezzing when they have the time and energy to do it safely.
Also, except for a few specific builds, there is no advantage to loading up a whole bunch of skills in your Hero's bars. Again, if you observe them in practice, particularly the monks, you'd see that they primarily use only 4 or 5 main skills - so they usually have room for a rez, unless you micro-manage them.

Didnt see this post earlier so i'll respond to it here.

I don't know how much experience you have with monks, but it has been the consensus for the past several years that bringing rezzes on the backline is a bad idea when you could bring them on the midline.

I'm also going to call BS on the latter half of this quote. I don't micro my heroes, and they use all 6 of their heals or prots (+ their 2 inspiration e-management skills) quite well. They don't just stick with "4 or 5 main skills". Maybe you need to observe your heroes more (or change their skills)? Heroes use some skills more than others - the trick is giving them skills that they will use often while staying within the bounds of their active and passive energy management.

And FYI, I closely observed my monk heroes when I was creating their builds. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass.

Quaker · Jul 24, 2011, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I don't know how much experience you have with monks, but it has been the consensus for the past several years that bringing rezzes on the backline is a bad idea when you could bring them on the midline.

That consensus is mostly among PvP players in PvP - and mostly with humans, not Heroes. Often times they carry those ideas over into PvE, but that doesn't mean they are needed. In PvP, due to the many different conditions you can run into it is probably good to have skill bars with many options and often there's not enough room for a rez, but.....

Quote:

They don't just stick with "4 or 5 main skills".

I probably wasn't too clear on that, so let me put it this way - in PvE there is not as much need for Heroes to carry a variety of skills to counter a large variety of situations.
Naturally, if you equip them with a larger variety of skills, they will use more skills. In some builds (mostly non-monk) you need more skills to get the proper mechanic.
But, in PvE, a monk Hero only needs 2 or 3 spam-ish-able heals or prots, and a couple of condition/hex removers. There is always room for a rez.

Despite what some people may claim, I find (my) Heroes to be very good at using skills at the proper times. I find that the "mid-liners" as some would call them - the Necro, Ele, or Mesmer - do most of the rezzing. The Monks only rez if they have enough energy and the team is not receiving much damage at the moment (usually after the battle). So, there is no particular reason to actually prevent the Monks from rezzing.

NOTE - In any case, the UA build I had posted earlier was one I had only recently changed to UA. Because I had forgotten about UA not working with signets, the UA becomes counter-productive unless micro-managed. (UA's energy regen loss doesn't matter if you only use it to rez and don't maintain it.) So, I changed my original post to reflect the latest changes, which essentially puts the build back the way it was, with no UA. In that build, if you don't want a rez, you could substitute Signet of Devotion or whatever.

Missing HB · Jul 24, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

The problem with your build is that, the way it is, you don't really have a tanker and because of that, you will probably end up being facerolled in 10 sec in some areas( elite ones in HM especially and 2-3 dungeons...)

You surely at least need pets, but then you might find that a r/p bar would be much better ( otyugh and all pet attacks , with barbed + burning spear...)... Both builds would work, but you would need to play melee yourself for barrage heroes as R/W with save yourself and sword attacks then to make it optimal in my opinion.

Xenomortis · Jul 24, 2011, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

The problem with your build is that, the way it is, you don't really have a tanker and because of that, you will probably end up being facerolled in 10 sec in some areas( elite ones in HM especially and 2-3 dungeons...)

What are you talking about?
He has minions which pretty much do that for you and whilst he could do with Rit spirits, they're not necessary.